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Aubrey Plaza cradles her pregnant belly alongside Christopher Abbott at 2026 Tony Awards
Aubrey Plaza, who's expecting her first baby, walked the red carpet at the 79th annual Tony Awards alongside her partner Christopher Abbott.
Jon Cryer thought Andrew McCarthy was a 'dick' amid 'all kinds of issues' filming 'Pretty in Pink'
Jon Cryer initially thought his 'Pretty in Pink' costar Andrew McCarthy was a 'dick' amid 'all kinds of issues' on the 1986 film set, before learning that McCarthy was 'battling his own demons.'
Tony Awards 2026 winners revealed: See the full list
Check out who took home top honors at the 2026 Tony Awards, hosted by Pink.
'Scary Movie' bests 'Backrooms' and 'Masters of the Universe' in weekend box office brawl
The side-splitting return of 'Scary Movie' didn't just best 'Backrooms' and 'Masters of the Universe' at the weekend box office; it opened higher than any previous entry in the parody franchise.
The Essence of Irregular, Unconventional, and Political Warfare: Solving Complex Political-Military Problems and Creating Dilemmas for Adversaries
“The essence of irregular, unconventional, and political warfare is not violence. It is strategy."
'Rivals' shocks viewers by killing off major character in surprise book change
'Rivals' just deviated from Jilly Cooper's 'Rutshire Chronicles' by killing off a major character in a surprise change from the books. Why? Because it was time for Tony to "pay some penance for what he has done."
BOSS Summit Miami Helps Owners Maximize Business Exit Value
BOSS Summit Miami brought business owners together to learn exit planning, tax strategies, wealth preservation, and M&A.
Trump walks out on 'Meet the Press' interview after clash with NBC journalist: 'I've had enough'
President Donald Trump did not take kindly to NBC's Kristen Welker bringing up the results of the 2020 election and walked out, ending the interview early.
Blue Jays' Max Scherzer: On track to start Wednesday
Blue Jays' Max Scherzer: On track to start Wednesday
Olympian Simone Biles is recovering from serious health scare after 'almost dying'
Olympian Simone Biles reveals she has spent the week recovering in bed after suffering a frightening health scare: 'Almost dying wasn't on my bingo card.'
Piecework’s jigsaw puzzles are making ‘grandma hobbies’ cool
From maximalist pizzas to retro beaches, Piecework brings canvases with a coffee-table book flair to gen Z’s homes
That's amore! Dua Lipa and Callum Turner host second wedding ceremony at luxurious Italian villa
Dua Lipa and Callum Turner have tied the knot — again. The musician and actor are celebrating their marriage with a second ceremony after making things official in London on May 31.
What those 'Masters of the Universe' end-credits scenes mean for a potential sequel— and why one almost didn't happen
'Masters of the Universe' director Travis Knight and star Nicholas Galitzine break down those two end-credits scenes — one of which almost didn't get to be in the movie — and what they reveal about a potential second He-Man film.
'Scandal' stars Kerry Washington and Tony Goldwyn think Olivia and Fitz are still together
'Scandal' on-screen couple Kerry Washington and Tony Goldwyn reunited for Variety's Actors on Actors series.
It Safe To Eat Green Bananas? Here's What the Science Says
Are green bananas safe to eat? We did the research to find out. Here’s how their flavor, texture, and nutrition change as they ripen.
Pigeons are famous long-distance flyers. And apparently the liver could be their GPS
From wartime messages to love letters, pigeons have carried our mail for centuries. A new study suggests the secret to how they find their way might be hiding in an unexpected place: the liver.
High School Science Teacher Dies Suddenly from Aggressive Form of Leukemia: ‘Her Illness Came Without Warning’
Ohio science teacher Michelle Eynon is being remembered after her sudden death from acute leukemia at the age of 48. She is survived by her husband and two children.
Southwest eyes deeper revamp; MAX 7 service seen in 2027
Southwest Airlines expects Boeing's long-delayed 737 MAX 7 to enter revenue service in 2027, about six months after the aircraft is certified by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, Chief Operating Officer Andrew Watterson told Reuters on Saturday.
James Handy's final film scrapped after late actor's murder, producer says
A producer of James Handy's final movie project shares that the comedy film has officially been axed after the late actor's killing on June 3.
'Buffy' star Alyson Hannigan mourns the death of Anthony Head: 'This cut is so deep I fear it can never heal'
'Buffy' star Alyson Hannigan mourned the death of her costar Anthony Head, who played Rupert Giles on the supernatural series.
Jimmy Fallon suddenly drops out of Madonna premiere interview for 'Confessions II'
Jimmy Fallon dropped out of a Madonna interview at the last minute, with Anderson Cooper filling in at the 'Confessions II' short film premiere in New York City.
Antonelli's 'magic lap' pips Verstappen to Monaco pole
Mercedes' Kimi Antonelli beats Red Bull's Max Verstappen to pole position in a gripping qualifying session at the Monaco Grand Prix.
Jimmy Kimmel says Trump should be rooting for the Spurs in 2026 NBA Finals: 'It's what got him out of Vietnam'
Jimmy Kimmel shared his two cents on why Donald Trump should be rooting for the San Antonio Spurs over his hometown team, the New York Knicks, when he attends game three of the NBA finals.
Real can help REMAX agents triple their business, CEO says
Real CEO Tamir Poleg and REMAX CEO Erik Carlson explain why unifying the two companies will create an enhanced value proposition for their agents.
Colman Domingo to be guest on first-ever live Awardist podcast recording at Tribeca Film Festival
From 'The Four Seasons' and 'Euphoria,' to 'Disclosure Day' and 'Michael,' Colman Domingo will chat about his incredible career as the guest for EW's first-ever live recording of 'The Awardist' podcast at Tribeca.
The Kennedys and British royal family were once romantically linked, new book reveals exactly how
A member from each of the Kennedys and the royal family were once romantically linked, Caroline Hallemann's new book reveals. The two dynasties have been connected for decades, dating back to the 1930s.
‘Regular Communication Has Helped’ Tiger Woods and Vanessa Trump ‘Cope’ amid Their Health Struggles (Exclusive Source)
Tiger Woods, 50, and Vanessa Trump, 48, are leaning on each other for support as they overcome their own health challenges together, PEOPLE has exclusively learned.
Everything you need to know about that big 'Masters of the Universe' cameo
'Masters of the Universe' star Nicholas Galitzine and director Travis Knight detail how they landed a certain member of He-Man royalty for a cameo in the new sci-fi/fantasy movie.
Trinity School of Medical Laboratory Science achieves maximum accreditation
STEUBENVILLE — Trinity Health System’s School of Medical Laboratory Science Program has been awarded the maximum 10-year accreditation by the National Accrediting Agency for Clinical Laboratory Sciences. As the premier agency for ensuring the highest standards of education in clinical laboratory sciences, NAACLS grants this prestigious 10-year status only to programs that demonstrate exceptional educational […]
School of Medical Laboratory Science achieves maximum accreditation
STEUBENVILLE — Trinity Health System’s School of Medical Laboratory Science Program has been awarded the maximum 10-year accreditation by the National Accrediting Agency for Clinical Laboratory Sciences. As the premier agency for ensuring the highest standards of education in clinical laboratory sciences, NAACLS grants this prestigious 10-year status only to programs that demonstrate exceptional educational […]
Capcom Shines Bright With Massive Reveals at Summer Game Fest 2026
'Resident Evil Veronica' announcement, 'Monster Hunter Wilds: Ascendance', and who to look out for in 'Street Fighter 6' Year 4.
'Among Us' TV show surprise premieres 2 years after wrapping production
'Among Us' TV show surprise premieres all 10 episodes on Paramount+, 2 years after series creator Owen Dennis wrapped production.
Soccer star Ashlyn Harris talks 'co-parenting' with ex Ali Krieger: 'I respect her as a mom'
Soccer star Ashlyn Harris says she respects her former partner, Ali Krieger, as a mom to their two young kids.
NC State Health Plan board approves Medicare Advantage plan benefit changes despite retiree concerns
Retirees on the state's Medicare Advantage will face higher out-of-pocket maximums next year, as well as higher copays for many medical services.
Paul McCartney says feud with John Lennon before the Beatles broke up felt 'like sticking little daggers in me'
Former Beatle Paul McCartney looks back on feud with bandmate John Lennon over management disputes before the band broke up.
'Lioness' season 3 first look: Zoe Saldaña teases Joe's 'demanding' new mission (exclusive)
In the exclusive first look at the highly anticipated return of 'Lioness,' Zoe Saldaña previews the 'demanding' new season: 'I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to pull it off.'
'Every Year After' showrunner has a 5-season plan for the series
'Every Year After' showrunner Amy B. Harris has big plans for Barry's Bay, including a season 2 that will adapt Carley Fortune's 'One Golden Summer.'
Official | Allan Saint-Maximin leaves RC Lens
Allan Saint-Maximin’s (29) exit from RC Lens has been confirmed. The Frenchman is expected to make a move to the MLS.Having joined Lens last February following the termination of his contract with M...
L.A. Times insider: Austin Reaves wants max deal from Lakers
According to a Los Angeles Times insider, the Lakers may have no choice but to give Austin Reaves a max contract this summer if they want to keep him.
Dodgers 3B Max Muncy and D-backs 1B Ildemaro Vargas both exit after violent collision at first base
Both men looked dazed after running into each other at full speed on a close play.
Alexa Demie reveals how she felt about Barbie Ferreira leaving 'Euphoria' after season 2
'Euphoria' star Alexa Demie has revealed how she really felt about Barbie Ferreira's shocking exit after season 2, ahead of the heavily criticized final season of the Zendaya-starring show.
James Handy, 'Jumanji' and 'Top Gun: Maverick' actor, fatally stabbed at 81
Los Angeles police say that actor James Handy, known for his work in films like 'Top Gun: Maverick' and 'Jumanji,' has been fatally stabbed at 81. A suspect is in custody.
The evolution of in-vehicle entertainment
High-end and flashy infotainment systems on new vehicles are a big draw for modern drivers.
Dalton Rushing Gets Public Support From Max Muncy Amid Scrutiny
Los Angeles Dodgers catcher Dalton Rushing has been in the spotlight for his fiery on-field persona, creating a good deal of headlines.
Entertainment, inspiration for all ages
The Averitt Center for the Arts announced earlier this week its Summer/Fall 2026 season for the Emma Kelly Theater, offering a range of entertainment for audiences of all ages.
Soccer star Ashlyn Harris opens up about divorce from former teammate Ali Krieger
World Cup champion Ashlyn Harris explains that her life with Krieger 'just wasn't for me.'
NIH Selects Dr. Steven Schiff as Director of Fogarty International Center, Associate Director for International Research
Dr. Schiff will serve as the ninth permanent director of FIC.
'Grey's Anatomy' star talks future amid cast exits: Every show 'gets canceled someday'
'Grey's Anatomy' actor Jason George has revealed he's returning to the show after the cast exit saw Kim Raver and Kevin McKidd leave the series: Every show 'gets canceled someday,' George said.
iPhone 18 Pro: Dark Cherry, Light Blue, and Dark Gray Chassis Leaked
The color options Apple is reportedly planning for the upcoming iPhone 18 Pro and iPhone 18 Pro Max have appeared online today in the form of images of chassis parts of unknown origin. Shared by the account name "yeux1122" on the Korean-langauge Naver blog, the images show what appear to be production-ready frames for three of the four colors Apple is rumored to be planning.
Madonna Turns Times Square into Night Club, Previews New Album to Kick Off Pride Month at Surprise Concert: 'C'mon, Gays!'
Madonna turned New York City's Times Square into a vibrant dance floor to preview 'Confessions II' to kick off Pride Month in partnership with Grindr. She took the stage in a glamorous pink corset paired with coordinating stockings and silver lace-up boots to perform songs from the new album.
Max Verstappen Demands a “New Back” As Red Bull’s Brutal RB22 Suspension Setup Threatens Monaco Disaster
Max Verstappen isn’t mincing words about the brutal physical and mechanical toll the 2026 Red Bull RB22 is taking on his body. As Formula 1 heads into the tight, unforgiving streets of the Monaco Grand Prix, the world champion’s frustrations…
Quentin Tarantino rips modern movies from Hollywood's 'flavorless sausage factory,' would 'rather read a book'
Quentin Tarantino slammed contemporary movies, as he called Hollywood a 'flavorless sausage factory' — but named a few recent films he actually liked.
Danielle Fishel and Will Friedle open up about 'sad' rift with 'Boy Meets World' costar Ben Savage
Danielle Fishel and Will Friedle are opening up about their falling out with 'Boy Meets World' costar Ben Savage, whom they say declined to cohost their rewatch podcast in 2022, and has since gone silent.
Sharon Stone knew her marriage was 'over' when husband questioned her getting mastectomy despite massive tumor
Actress Sharon Stone said she knew her marriage was finished when her then-husband was 'furious' with her decision to get a double mastectomy after doctors found tumors in her breasts: 'He was done with me then.'
Jennifer Garner reveals how 'upheaval' from Ben Affleck divorce impacted her career
Jennifer Garner says the end of her marriage to Ben Affleck led to such an 'upheaval' in her family life that she 'hardly worked' for years.
EPA's Science Independence Under Congressional Fire
Congress scrutinizes Trump administration's dismantling of EPA's independent science office. Hear testimony Thursday on federal environmental research impact.
SIFF is bringing back 70mm screenings — and it’s starting with a big movie
Tickets for screenings of “The Odyssey,” the first film shot entirely on IMAX film cameras, at SIFF Cinema Downtown go on sale Thursday morning.
Martin Bashir recalls being 'gobsmacked' by Michael Jackson telling him he slept in the same bed as children
Journalist Martin Bashir appears in the new Netflix documentary 'Michael Jackson: The Verdict,' in which he details filming the controversial 2003 special 'Living With Michael Jackson.'
How 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' season 2 delivers Toph and 'Fire Nation succession' (exclusive)
On set for 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' season 2 as the cast and crew preview what's to come (and look ahead to season 3).
'Survivor 50' players name the best moment of the season
'Survivor 50' players name the best moment of the season, and while one clear winning answer emerges, get ready for a few twists in the replies.
Ted Danson will 'apologize for the rest of my life' for infamous blackface performance at Whoopi Goldberg roast
Ted Danson recalls preparing for the infamous roast of Whoopi Goldberg in 1993. He knew immediately that it hadn't gone well.
Why Anna Faris thought she'd never do another 'Scary Movie': 'A concession of my soul'
Anna Faris never thought she'd return to the 'Scary Movie' franchise, fearing 'a concession of my soul.' Now, she tells EW that coming back as Cindy Campbell after 20 years has been a 'huge gift.'
Jason Sudeikis calls dating 'daunting' following Olivia Wilde split in rare comment about personal life
Jason Sudeikis finds dating 'daunting,' he says, six years after he and Olivia Wilde ended their engagement.
MGM Resorts International vs. Caesars Entertainment: Which Consumer Stock Is a Better Buy in 2026?
MGM leverages global luxury and digital expansion, while Caesars commands a vast U.S. footprint and loyalty program.
The cult of objectivity has broken consciousness science
With 22 competing theories and no consensus in sight, the science of consciousness is lost. In this exclusive IAI interview, Berkeley psychedelics researcher and bestselling author of a new book on consciousness Michael Pollan insists that even though consciousness lies beyond traditional forms of scientific investigation, we should resist becoming dualists who see it as something radically different from ordinary stuff in the world. Instead, he makes the case for reimagining science itself: it must stop reaching for objective descriptions of physical reality, and instead embrace subjectivity as the indispensable core of all inquiry. Alasdair Craig: How did your experiences with psychedelics get you interested in consciousness?Michael Pollan: One of the things that happens on psychedelics is that they foreground consciousness. What formerly seemed perfectly transparent and ever present—and yet, non-existent, as water is to fish—suddenly you see it. The metaphor I use in the book is that psychedelics sponge the windscreen. Suddenly you realize: wow, there’s a windscreen, there is this phenomenon that’s mediating my relationship to reality. This is not an unusual realization on psychedelics. I think a lot of people are called to think about consciousness after psychedelic experiences. So that was the proximate inspiration for A World Appears: A Journey Into Consciousness (2026).And then there was a more specific way in which psychedelics influence the book. That was a particular experience I had on psilocybin. I had the sensation that the plants in my garden were conscious and returning my gaze, with their own point of view and agency, and I got curious as to how to evaluate an insight like that. I mean, what’s the truth quotient of insights you have on psychedelics? And I was reading William James—who, of course, wrote beautifully about mystical experience—and he said, we can’t judge the metaphysics here, but we should pay attention to two criteria: (1) How useful is it to think this is true? He was a pragmatist, of course. And (2) can we subject it to other ways of knowing to validate it? Because maybe we should treat these insights as hypotheses. And that’s kind of how I approach psychedelics, as a great generator of hypotheses, but they need to be tested against other ways of knowing. And so that led me down this long path exploring the science of plant intelligence and plant sentience.AC: I love your phrase, “smudging the windowpane of conscious experience.” So do you now start to think, actually, even when I’m not on psychedelics, I’m just seeing a screen all the time, which is not reality, but rather is my conscious experience, behind which reality is hidden?MP: Well, you know, not when I’m brushing my teeth and making breakfast! But yes, in meditation, certainly. I mean, one of the things you realize is that my experience happens to be this way now, but it could be another way. And many things can affect it. My morning coffee changes the screen in various ways, sharpens certain things.___The only tool we have to understand consciousness is consciousness.___There’s this wonderful metaphor in Aldous Huxley’s book, The Doors of Perception, where he thinks we channel consciousness, and that what the brain does is edit it, and there’s a reducing valve. And psychedelics open the reducing valve wider. I don’t know that I’m ready to buy into the idea that consciousness exists outside brains, but I do love that metaphor because there are times when you are more conscious than others. I know I’ve switched from window pane to valve, but you know, a camera aperture can open wider or narrower. And I do have a sense of that. I have a sense of when I’m being less conscious, and when I’m being more conscious, by which I mean, you know, more present, taking in more sensory information. So when you start thinking about consciousness as a matter of degree, that changes things also.I think when we scroll on social media, obviously, we’re conscious. But minimally so, because we don’t have to generate our own thoughts. We’re basically taking these little hits from other people and thinking their thoughts.The process of writing this book made me kind of relativize everyday consciousness as just one type, which is exactly what William James said. Normal consciousness is one type, separated by the flimsiest of screens from the other types.AC: If we stick with the metaphor of the smudge on the window that you get when you take psychedelics, it seems like we’re saying that consciousness has become like an object that you’re looking at, right? You’re looking at the smudge and that just is consciousness. But sometimes we’ll talk about consciousness as a state that you’re in, rather than an object you can perceive. You’re either conscious or you’re not conscious. So it’s difficult to really know what sort of thing we’re talking about when we talk about consciousness, right?MP: Yeah. When you say that consciousness is an object, what’s the subject? Consciousness also? The only tool we have to understand consciousness is consciousness. So we’re in a closed loop and when we get a perspective on consciousness, we’re not achieving any distance from it. That’s one of the problems with studying consciousness. Science is predicated on an objective, God’s eye view of things, and you never get that. There’s no such thing. SUGGESTED VIEWING The brain filters consciousness With Àlex Gómez-Marín But, yeah, there is this sense, I think, that consciousness is something you can approach. Certainly, when you’re writing and trying to recreate a conscious experience, it’s a fiction, but you’re standing back from it, and looking at it. But there’s no real subject-object distinction.AC: That’s so interesting, because when philosophers start talking about consciousness, they often talk about what they call “qualia”, which is their word for the felt experience of, say, the color red. And I think that way of speaking often makes us think of the qualia as an object, which you can see out there: the redness of red. But, as you say, we also want to collapse the subject-object distinction when we talk about consciousness. So there’s something strange going on here…MP: Oh, yeah, there are many strange things going on! *AC: Let’s talk about the varieties of consciousness. Apart from perceptions, there are, pains, emotions, thoughts, and so on. What is it that holds all this diversity together so that they all count as instances of consciousness? What is it that they all have in common?MP: Yeah, that’s a really good question. I mean, there is sensory information, right? Which we perceive coming from the world outside ourselves. And then there’s internal information, which is what’s called interoception. And this is very important too. This is where feelings come from—what are sometimes called homeostatic feelings—that are intended to get the brain to keep us in these narrow ranges of temperature and glucose and so on. That’s a very important part of consciousness. And according to some researchers, who I think are probably right, this is where consciousness begins, with these very primal feelings, like hunger and thirst and warmth and itch, and things like that. And then there’s this third thing, which is our thinking about thinking.And what holds all this together is, I think, the sense of self. Consciousness generates a self: it is probably an organizing principle. All this stuff is happening to the self. It’s a construct, I think, but it is very useful. It can connect all these different streams of consciousness to a single being or a place, metaphorically speaking.* AC: The first half of your book is about the science of consciousness. Is consciousness just another thing, like black holes or the origin of life, which we don’t yet understand, but which we should have every hope that science will one day get to the bottom of, or is there something special about consciousness that makes this unlikely?MP: It depends how you define science. As we define science now, it’s going be very difficult. Science since Galileo has had a set of rules or assumptions, which is that the proper remit of science is to deal with the objective, quantifiable, third-person world. And the physical sciences have done amazing work under that set of limitations. Galileo—for tactical reasons, not for philosophical reasons—said science should not deal with the soul, which at the time was what consciousness was considered to be. So what is subjective, what is qualitative, what is first person, we’re going to leave to the church, he said. And this was a good agreement, and it probably kept many scientists from getting burned at the stake. But it leaves science in an awkward spot, now that it wants to venture into that territory of qualities, of first-person experience. And I don’t think it has the proper tools. I think it will have to add to its toolkit in some way, and find a way to bring in phenomenology, or lived experience and introspection, which science is usually dismissive of.The challenge—we alluded to it earlier—is that the only tool you have to study consciousness with is consciousness. And what I mean by that is, the whole scientific enterprise is a manifestation of consciousness. As much as scientists like to flatter themselves with this idea that they attain a godlike perspective on what they study, when it comes to consciousness, there’s no such thing. And it’s fine for all the things you can step outside of and study from that perspective. But two areas it won’t work are consciousness and cosmology.___It could be that we live in this anomaly of not believing nature is conscious. And maybe psychedelics are teaching us something we’ve forgotten.___With cosmology, too, you have to study the universe from inside the universe. It’s not that cosmologists haven’t made progress. We know a lot about the age of the universe and expansion and things like that. But we can’t penetrate what happened before the Big Bang. We just don’t have the tools because we can’t stand outside.The fact that there are 22 full-scale theories of consciousness tells you all you need to know: we’re kind of lost. And I was surprised to find that we are more lost than I thought we were when I started this. I thought that there’d be leading theories, or that we had experiments that we could conduct that would nail some of this down. And the fact is, we don’t.So, I don’t know if science can solve it. But, of course, we can change the rules of science. A really influential book for me was a book called The Blind Spot, by two physicists, Marcello Gleiser and Adam Frank, and a philosopher, Evan Thompson. It’s a reminder that science is a social practice. It’s organized in a certain way and it can be organized in a different way. But it has this huge blind spot at the center of it, which is its failure to recognize that it is a form of consciousness itself, and it doesn’t have a good way of taking account of lived experience.AC: On the one hand, I think you want to resist traditional dualism, which would say that consciousness is something magical, something supernatural, right? But on the other hand, you’re accepting that there is this division in reality between the stuff that you can investigate objectively and measure, and so on—the stuff that science has been good at finding out about—and consciousness, which, for some reason, you can’t objectively measure. Some would take this to suggest that the dualism is actually right. Is there a way of reconciling these two strands of your thinking?MP: To call it magical is full of value judgement. I mean, you could just say immaterial. The interesting thing is, I think, that intuitively we’re all dualists. And I don’t know whether that’s because we’re children of Descartes and other cultures are less dualist than we are. Or it may be because that’s how consciousness feels. It feels different than the body. It feels separate from the body. But I don’t think we should trust that intuition.AC: So let’s think about ways that science might be changed to get at consciousness. I suppose the starting point would be the way that you begin the second half of your book. You have this nice line from William James, where he says, “We now begin our study of the mind from within.” Could you give us some sense of the ways of studying the mind from within? What does this involve?MP: I don’t know what that science looks like. But one of the points I’m making is that it depends on the humanities. I found that I learned as much, if not more, about consciousness, from reading novels and poetry. There is a sense of the fullness and complexity of consciousness that you don’t get in any scientific account. I interviewed this stream-of-consciousness writer and I approached her as an expert on consciousness, and she is. So I think that dialogue is really important.I’m reading Ben Lerner’s new novel, Transcription. Just read the first page of this novel: it’s a man falling asleep on a train, going to conduct an interview, and there is the experience of being in the train, facing backwards, there’s the view outside, but there’s a reflection of himself through which he’s seeing outside. There’s the memory of dropping his kids off at school. All this is going on in one moment of consciousness. Scientists aren’t going anywhere near that. But I think it’s useful for them to think about. That’s where we’re trying to go: like, how does such a layered experience happen? You know, it also makes you wonder, could a computer ever do this? And it gives you some doubt.*AC: Before we get to computers, perhaps we could talk briefly about plants. How did you come to feel that they are sentient?MP: Well, it was a psychedelic experience, and it’s not unusual on psychedelics. In fact, there’ve been studies about how people become animists during psychedelic experience. Their belief in animism arises after a single psychedelic experience.You know, most scientists would say this is all a myth. But we have only 400 years of the age of enlightenment and science. Before that, we were animists, and if you go around the world, most indigenous cultures are still animists, and children are animists, by and large, until they go to school. So it could be that we live in this anomaly of not believing nature is conscious. And maybe psychedelics are teaching us something we’ve forgotten.As I said, I wanted to test this idea, and see whether there was conventional scientific evidence for it. And there’s fascinating work going on in a field that calls itself—in a rather cheeky way—plant neurobiology. These are people who fully realize there are no neurons in plants, but they’re trolling conventional botanists! And they’re doing experiments that are demonstrating that plants can learn and remember, which is kind of amazing: how do you store a memory without neurons? They’re finding plants that can solve problems, that can hear and see. In fact, they have 20 senses to our five or six. For example, a bean plant looking for something to twine, and given a pole within eight inches or so of it, knows where that pole is and will aim its spiraling reach at that pole. What is that about? Is it bouncing signals off of it?One of the spookiest things is the fact that the same anesthetics that put us out put plants out. You might think that plants are already out, but they’re not. They’re just slow. If you take a plant with a fast behavior, like a Venus flytrap, and give it an anesthetic, it will stop reacting. So you have to ask yourself, what is lost when the plant is anaesthetized? Some state of alertness, of awareness, of its environment, of reactivity. I’m not prepared to call that consciousness, but maybe it’s sentience—which is a simpler form of consciousness, and involves the ability to sense what’s going on in your environment and assess what’s good and bad for you and act appropriately. That may be a universal quality of life.AC: Let’s turn from plants to AI. You point out that LLMs are trained on the internet rather than direct interactions with reality. You put this really nicely when you say the internet is not the world so much as a shadow cast by the world. So LLMs are living in this kind of shadow world, or in Plato’s cave, as you put it. What’s the significance of this for AI consciousness and moral consideration? And, to recall the beginning of our conversation, if we’re stuck behind a veil or screen of consciousness, are we also stuck in a kind of shadow world?MP: I don’t think they’re the same shadow worlds because our world includes nature and other people. And even if it’s mediated in some ways... There is a reality out there, and we are in relation to it, through consciousness. There’s friction with it. What’s missing from the LLMs is that friction with the real world. There’s more to the world than human representation, which is what they’re dealing with. And that means that so far, AI is a cultural technology for combining thoughts we’ve already had. SUGGESTED VIEWING Cracking the code for thought With Roger Penrose, Sabrina Gonzalez Pasterski, Max Tegmark, Güneş Taylor Genuine creativity is more than collage. A lot of what AI does now is tantamount to collage, putting this with that and you know, that’s part of art, certainly. But there are also genuinely new ideas that come into the world that don’t come in through manipulating the representations we already have. So it remains to be seen whether AIs can be truly creative in that more radical sense.But my arguments against AI becoming conscious have to do with the fact that the idea of AI consciousness is based on this faulty metaphor that the brain is a computer. There are dimensions in which the brain is like a computer—it certainly does its share of computation. But computers have this sharp distinction between hardware and software, and brains don’t. In a brain, hardware and software are identical. Every memory is a physical change to the brain. Brains are not interchangeable in the way computers are. So this idea that you could take the consciousness out and somehow run it on another substrate, a silicon substrate, seems foolhardy.Anyway, it’s a more extended argument, and I may be wrong. And when we move to computers that aren’t based on silicon—neuromorphic computers and things like that—all bets may be off.AC: Regarding your point about LLMs being stuck in the world of our representations—the internet or whatever—and not being able to interact with reality, are these representations, the world of the internet, themselves part of reality? We’ve created the internet, but it’s still a real thing that exists. And so while the LLMs may be trapped within that part of reality, they’re nevertheless within reality and interacting with it and so on. So it’s not obvious that there’s a barrier there to them becoming conscious and being creative.MP: Yeah, I mean, if our consciousness is built out of human culture, which is what we’re talking about with all those representations. But I tend to think consciousness comes a bit more out of nature and friction with the natural world, but...AC: So there’s a fundamental divide between the natural world and human artefacts?MP: And we lose track of that, and especially people in this computer world. You know, the people who are creating these AI systems, my guess is they’ve been into video games since the age of three, and they didn’t go outside a lot. And their own contact with nature is somewhat limited. I could be wrong, it’d be a very interesting thing to ask, all the wizards of AI, whether they like to go fishing and hiking and do things like that. Or were they on computers from a very early age? I interviewed Blake Lemoine, the Google engineer who came to believe that LaMDA, the Google LLM out at the time, was conscious and deserved personhood. It was very clear that he didn’t see a distinction between this bubble in which he lived and the real world. And I think we’ve all been distanced from the natural world, and this is taking us even further away. But it’s still there, you know, and we still have bodies, and we’re still mortal, and we don’t live in a simulation.AC: I think that’s a great place to finish. Michael Pollan, thank you very much!
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